Comments/Vote Section IV Death

[Admin]

IV. Death and its Consequences
Although we are "not" a permanent death guild we impose harsh penalties for death of a character and group within a quest. This is done to foster strong tactical play and for every quest to run flawlessly.


1) Death followed by a spell/ability resurrection has no penalty.
2) Death where resurrection is not possible has the following penalties.
a) Group must recall if in mid-quest after gathering the soul stone(s) of the dead and retreat to a safe area prior and recall. If the soul stone is in a place where it is physically impossible to gather use common sense.
b) Dead Characters must "burn" 3,500 PP of gear or cash (buy and don't equip) to cover costs associated with a resurrection.
c) If you can't afford this fee you must sell off items at the bartenders/general vendors to raise the cash.
d) If death occurs at the end fight you may "not" collect the end chest, but may collect the end reward as long as you go through the "resurrection" process.
e) A group that recalls from a quest due to a lack of a resurrection may only run that quest and rest of a series on a lower setting. If you died on elite you may only run on hard. If you were running on Normal you may retry the quest on Normal only.
f) If a group wipes occurs - learn from your mistake and run at a lower setting.

Please provide feedback and vote.

[Admin]

In conversation the cost came up and some other ideas were brought forth.

One is 1000PP * LVL
Another is making it 2000 plat (1500 for scroll and 500 for fee)
Another idea is after Silver Flame Favor 75 is given make it 1500 (just for the scroll) and after 150 favor the resurrection is "Gratis" in view of faithful service.

Other conversations talked about possible reductions in CON stat with resurrection.

[vero]

I think we should also have people put it in their bios how many times they died and where.
Just as an additional deterrent
That way, chars who never died can put that in as well =D

I like the gold penalties better than the old PD way of deleting your char
Its just a shame to throw away a character whom you may have put so much time into just because of some bad luck.
But i stuck around because i like playing with you guys.

[joseph]

(I think a lot of work and effort have gone into things here, and there is a lot of experience behind some of the decisions. Please read my comments with the understanding that I might not know why a particular rule is in place, so my questions are genuine in their interest in gathering information. Thanks - Joe)

A couple of suggestions here...

First - I think the plat fee should be 1,000, or even 1,500 per character level - that way it scales with the difficulty associated in bringing a character back to life. It means that death becomes progressively more expensive. This money should go to a guild 'fund' for purchasing items down the road.

Second - I think that if you die, even if the group has the ability to resurrect you, that you should not be able to have a resurrection spell cast on you unless you have reached a safe area of the dungeon (for this purpose, consider all rest shrines to be 'safe' areas of the dungeon). So no casting a resurrection spell early on. You need to be at a rest shrine to make it happen.

Third - I think that it is not fair to the whole party if someone dies to leave mid quest. I think the party should finish the chain they are on (if possible) with the remaining members, and the one who died simply recalls out, fixed gear, etc. and waits. If it is a chain quest (like water works), then either that part of the chain gets repeated for that person, or that person enters and exits the quest twice (as an example) to lose some XP, but takes the party completion. The XP they lose represents (technically) an XP penalty to that character for their death. If there is an 'elite' streak, then the player should be allowed to run on elite - as losing that 'streak' bonus is an excessive amount of XP penalty for death - in particular at higher levels. It is like we all risked our lives to complete a mission - turning around and heading home because someone died is not fair - unless we really can't complete. Plus the lost XP for not completing the other person has is something of a death XP penalty.

The reason I suggest this is that, if we were running VoN, the chances of us as a group running VoN a second time for that player are pretty slim - so the individual player is losing out on part of the game experience (being excluded) because of a death - meaning they have to repeat the entire quest chain to get flagged or to complete. That is not fair, so I think an exception should be considered for chain quests (even WW). If you die in part III of WW, and the party completes, then you don't get the completion.

Fourth - There is another method for deaths where the player that died simply sits out that adventure (basically, they died, so they can't play until they are brought back to life). In this case they sit out the remainder of that adventure.

Finally, concerning the silver flame favor / res thing... if you had their favor, wouldn't you want to give them the money anyway because you were such a paragon of good deeds?

Just thoughts

[Admin]

A couple of suggestions here...

First - I think the plat fee should be 1,000, or even 1,500 per character level - that way it scales with the difficulty associated in bringing a character back to life. It means that death becomes progressively more expensive. This money should go to a guild 'fund' for purchasing items down the road.

Not sure about the progressive "death tax" The game has a set price on the raise dead and resurrection scroll. How about splitting the difference and going 1000 plat per. This makes character development more of challenge.

The guild fund reminds me of a SNL commercial for a life insurance policy --- "He's gone but at least you have a new Mercedes".
Personally, I think I am likely to delete characters who are not legally resurrected in quest. That would be my own personal rule and I wouldn't apply it to anyone else.




Second - I think that if you die, even if the group has the ability to resurrect you, that you should not be able to have a resurrection spell cast on you unless you have reached a safe area of the dungeon (for this purpose, consider all rest shrines to be 'safe' areas of the dungeon). So no casting a resurrection spell early on. You need to be at a rest shrine to make it happen.

Not a bad idea - as the spell takes some time to manage. Perhaps any "lockable" room or cleared outdoor area would work?



Third - I think that it is not fair to the whole party if someone dies to leave mid quest. I think the party should finish the chain they are on (if possible) with the remaining members, and the one who died simply recalls out, fixed gear, etc. and waits. If it is a chain quest (like water works), then either that part of the chain gets repeated for that person, or that person enters and exits the quest twice (as an example) to lose some XP, but takes the party completion. The XP they lose represents (technically) an XP penalty to that character for their death. If there is an 'elite' streak, then the player should be allowed to run on elite - as losing that 'streak' bonus is an excessive amount of XP penalty for death - in particular at higher levels. It is like we all risked our lives to complete a mission - turning around and heading home because someone died is not fair - unless we really can't complete. Plus the lost XP for not completing the other person has is something of a death XP penalty.

Perhaps for flow of the game chains having the soul stone grabbed - going back - paying the fee - while the rest of the group holds the instance open is not a bad idea. The player gets to complete the chain - all take a hit - which is reasonable - I mean there is a LOT of xp in this game. The negative some could bring up is that the player has their gear and spell points etc. recharged while the rest are left as is. The positive is that the recently rezzed paid for the privilige the 1K plat, but at some point we are looking for gnat droppings in pepper.

Can we agree that if a "Group wipes" or willingly recalls they have to run that one on a lower setting - and maybe have to rebuild the streak. That's a real penalty but it is not arbitrary.

The reason I suggest this is that, if we were running VoN, the chances of us as a group running VoN a second time for that player are pretty slim - so the individual player is losing out on part of the game experience (being excluded) because of a death - meaning they have to repeat the entire quest chain to get flagged or to complete. That is not fair, so I think an exception should be considered for chain quests (even WW). If you die in part III of WW, and the party completes, then you don't get the completion.

Fourth - There is another method for deaths where the player that died simply sits out that adventure (basically, they died, so they can't play until they are brought back to life). In this case they sit out the remainder of that adventure.

Finally, concerning the silver flame favor / res thing... if you had their favor, wouldn't you want to give them the money anyway because you were such a paragon of good deeds?

Just thoughts

Heh... I have a pally who is of the Sovereign Host and there are some quests he "won't run". Purge the Heretics is one - due to the story line.

[joseph]

Just want to clarify on this point:

Perhaps for flow of the game chains having the soul stone grabbed - going back - paying the fee - while the rest of the group holds the instance open is not a bad idea. The player gets to complete the chain - all take a hit - which is reasonable - I mean there is a LOT of xp in this game. The negative some could bring up is that the player has their gear and spell points etc. recharged while the rest are left as is. The positive is that the recently rezzed paid for the privilige the 1K plat, but at some point we are looking for gnat droppings in pepper.

-- I don't think the person who got a res should come back into the dungeon (full HP and SP and run on in). They should come back in and sit there, and the group completes the dungeon with one less member.

This is because some people might not want (or might not have time) to run that part of a chain again, and also it causes the rest of the group to run the quests more (which increases chance of over leveling).

Can we agree that if a "Group wipes" or willingly recalls they have to run that one on a lower setting - and maybe have to rebuild the streak. That's a real penalty but it is not arbitrary.

-- This is a tough call It seems we have a mix of groups - Static and Standard, and there are many PD style players who want to join us - and I think there is a huge untapped market of new players who do not want to zerg that would also join just to see quests, etc.

Logically it makes perfect sense. You get beat down in a dungeon on a hard setting, then going back in on a less hard setting = less monsters because you already killed some of them.

In terms of your average person though, getting beat down makes one less ready to run back in and fight again - but MORE likely to go fight someone other than the person who beat them.

Maybe set it so it is a group choice as follows?
1) Complete same day on a lower setting
or
2) Skip until one member of the party has gained a level
or
3) Skip until the next game session.

I prefer the option of complete on a lower setting, or skip until you have gained a level.

[Admin]

The problem is that if we have three or four in WW part 2 and someone gets nailed by Bloodletter and we kinda want to get WW Done that night..what does that one person do the rest of the night? Maybe they could solo a part to catch up ---- but not sure. Holding the instance open allows them to stay with the pack.

[joseph]

I was not clear (lack of sleep) ;D

-- I don't think the person who got a res should come back into the dungeon (full HP and SP and run on in). They should come back in and sit there, and the group completes the dungeon with one less member.

What I meant is that, as in the example of WW part 2 - they come back to the entrance, and then they sit out the rest of part 2, and then for part 3 they come back as normal - so at most they are sitting ten minutes or so.

In higher level dungeons that take much longer there will likely be other options available (in party True Res, etc.) - so the wait time for a person is minimal (I think) - especially since we won't be getting ourselves killed much (at least that is the plan)

[Admin]

Thanks for the clarification.